Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 July 27

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July 27

Category:YNH Films

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 05:12, 4 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Eponymous category for a company without the volume of spinoff content needed to warrant one. As always, every company that exists does not automatically get one of these just to contain itself; these are created only when they're needed navigationally by virtue of having a lot of spinoff content that needs to be categorized together. But this doesn't have that; the only content here is the eponym itself. Bearcat (talk) 21:23, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Dae Jang Geum characters

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 05:15, 4 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT: No fictional characters from this show have articles; only entry is a character that is also a real historical figure —swpbT 20:56, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Legislative buildings in Belagavi

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 05:17, 4 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:NARROWCAT —swpbT 20:48, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete -- The one article, probably the only possible one is well categorised so no need to merge. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:59, 30 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Ghanaian female CEOs

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 05:23, 4 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:NARROWCAT —swpbT 20:39, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Military units and formations by year of reestablishment

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: relisted, see here. (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 06:12, 18 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:NARROWCAT; extremely little likelihood of this becoming a more broadly used scheme. —swpbT 20:36, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment this nomination will leave the child category orphaned. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:26, 4 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Many military units and formations were reestablished, this has a large potential as a broad scheme.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:02, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Cultural depictions of Willem Barentsz

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 06:14, 18 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT —swpbT 20:34, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:2017 in men's sport

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 07:40, 28 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:NARROWCAT; no previous years in this scheme, and it's never apparently been a problem. —swpbT 20:34, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

New York By County and City

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename. Timrollpickering 10:04, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
more buildings and structures in New York by city or county
Nominator's rationale: As with the categories listed below in X of New York and Path Stations in New York, the above categories were originally nominated at WP:CFDS by Od Mishehu and all were opposed by Djflem. I have moved the discussions here to get them off of the CFDS page. I have included the full discussions but have hatted them. Some of the opposes were copy/paste duplicates that were not replied to so I have removed them in the interests of clarity.
To summarize, Od Mishehu nominated the categories for renaming on the basis of the recent RfC about New York → New York (state). Djflem opposes these moves on the grounds that there is no need for disambiguation because the use of "by city" and "by county" clearly indicates that the categories refer to the state of New York, not New York City. I concur with Od Mishehu's reading of the RfC consensus and the precedent demonstrated by our existing use of disambiguation for Washington state vs. Washington DC. (For example: Category:Buildings and structures in Washington (state) by city). ♠PMC♠ (talk) 07:14, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
previous discussions

Oppose County/city clearly indicate they are part of the State of New YorkDjflem (talk) 18:59, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Even to the degree that this means the categories shouldn't be renamed, it's not even true in the case of official county buildings - for example, Bronx County Courthouse is clearly in New York City. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 17:55, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose listings by city clearly indicate they are part of the State of New YorkDjflem (talk) 18:59, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Same can be said about Washington, yet we have Category:Buildings and structures in Washington (state) by city and a subcat for houses. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 20:21, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia:Other stuff exists Djflem (talk) 10:00, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
From that same page: "other stuff exists" arguments can be valid or invalid (my emphasis). In this case Od Mishehu's comparison to Washington is entirely pertinent as it is indicative of a precedent in usage. Some stuff exists as it does for a reason. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 02:59, 26 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose listings by county clearly indicate they are part of the State of New YorkDjflem (talk) 18:59, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Same can be said about Washington, yet we have Category:Buildings and structures in Washington (state) by county with various subtypes representing types of structures. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 20:21, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia:Other stuff existsDjflem (talk) 10:00, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

X of New York

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename. Timrollpickering 10:03, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: The above categories were originally nominated at WP:CFDS by Od Mishehu and all were opposed by Djflem. I have moved the discussions here to get them off of the CFDS page. I have included the full discussions but have hatted them.
To summarize, Od Mishehu nominated the categories for renaming on the basis of the recent RfC about New York → New York (state). Djflem opposes these moves on the grounds that there is no need for disambiguation because there are no instances of the above items in New York City itself, and that New York can therefore be assumed to mean New York State. I concur with Od Mishehu's reading of the consensus and the precedent that even if you don't have any X in New York City, you still need to identify the category as pertaining to New York (state), because a casual reader might not be aware that there are no X in New York City and might wrongly assume that the category pertains to the city. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:55, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Pure conjecture about what a casual reader "might wrongly assume" is not really a valid argument, since the editor cannot assume to know what any reader knows.Djflem (talk) 10:37, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Right, so we should err on the side of caution and make damn sure they know what we are talking about when there is the potential for confusion. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 13:14, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
grinding mills
The rationale for the changes cited state specifically it is to disambiguate from New York City.Djflem (talk) 10:00, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Which is exactly what the change is doing. There is persistent confusion between New York the state and New York the city when one does not append a descriptor to either, which is why they had that enormous RfC to standardize the disambiguation of New York state as New York (state). You may be well aware that there are no grinding mills or whatever other item in NYC, but lots of casual readers might not! Changing the name of a category that refers to New York ambiguously is necessary to clarify to the reader that the category contains items from New York as a state and not as a city, even if there are no examples of the categorized items from NYC. (Side note, I won't copy/paste this comment to every opposed New York (state) rename, but it refers to them all as far as I'm concerned). ♠PMC♠ (talk) 21:18, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The with all categories for the State of New York the items contains within it tens from New York as a state AND as a city. Any casual reader who may or may not know will determine that by clicking on the category will see that.Djflem (talk) 23:13, 26 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I have read your comment at least four times and I honestly have no idea what you are trying to communicate. I'm sorry. Could you please rephrase? ♠PMC♠ (talk) 05:35, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
dams
  • Oppose All dams are in the state, not city of New York Djflem (talk) 18:59, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    While I don't know of any similar category about dams, I believe the point I make below about grinding mills, and above aout specific railwy cmpany's stations, proves that practice here dictates that we disabiguate even for individual categories for which it's unnecessary. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 20:21, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The rationale for the changes cited state specifically it is to disambiguate from New York City.Djflem (talk) 10:00, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
bridges
  • Oppose listings by county clearly indicate they are part of the State of New YorkDjflem (talk) 18:59, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    What "by county"? עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 20:21, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    Excuse the error. Still oppose. There are no covered bridges in New York City (the rationale for the suggested change was to disambiguate from NYC, was it?) and hence no items in category that need disambiguation since they are in all In New York State.Djflem (talk) 10:11, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose There are no wooden bridges in New York City (the rationale for the suggested change was to disambiguate from NYC, wasn't it?) and hence no items in category needing disambiguation since they are in all In New York State.Djflem (talk) 10:11, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Path Stations in New York

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:PATH stations in Manhattan. – Fayenatic London 06:58, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: The above category was originally nominated at WP:CFDS by Od Mishehu and was opposed by Djflem. I have moved the discussion here to get it off of the CFDS page. I have included the full discussion but have hatted it. (Feel free to un-hat if that was improper of me).
To summarize, Od Mishehu nominated this category (among many others) for renaming on the basis of the recent RfC about New York → New York (state). Djflem opposes these moves on the grounds that there is no need for disambiguation because all of the PATH stations are New York City itself, and that New York in this context should therefore be left to mean New York State. Unlike the other categories I ported over above, I don't have a particular opinion on this one; this is a procedural nom only. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 07:18, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
previous discussion

"Oppose All PATH stations are located in New York City, there is no need for any disambiguationDjflem (talk) 18:59, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

And Great Northern Railway (U.S.) didn't go to the D.C. area, yet we have Category:Great Northern Railway stations in Washington (state). And Amtrak doesn't run in Georgia (country), yet we have Category:Amtrak stations in Georgia (U.S. state). עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 20:21, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia:Other stuff existsDjflem (talk) 10:00, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
My opinion here represents what was explicitly decided at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 April 4#Queens, where even the subway stations' category was renamed to New York City Subway stations in Queens, New York where no one would possibly doubt (without the disambiguater) what's meant by Queens. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 10:37, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Regardless of how small the system is, we already have distinct categories for stations in different geographic locations for other systems. There's no reason the Port Authority Trans-Hudson's location categories should be merged. As far as the intended nomination goes, I would prefer Category:PATH stations in New York City, if anything, though I'm open to Category:PATH stations in Manhattan. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 14:35, 29 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Alternative Rename To ...in New York City or ...in Manhattan, per DanTD above. RevelationDirect (talk) 01:59, 26 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Years in ancient and early medieval Christianity

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. – Fayenatic London 22:47, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
more years in Christianity
more years in religion
Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:SMALLCAT, mostly just one article per category. The intention of this nomination was to upmerge the content to the parent categories, e.g. upmerge Category:50 in Christianity to Category:50 and Category:1st-century Christianity but it appears that the article is already in Category:50 in Asia and Category:1st-century Christian church councils so a merge is redundant. That doesn't apply just to this single example, but in fact to all articles in the year categories of 1st-millennium Christianity: they are all in a century church council category and in a year by continent or country category. Note that once a year category in Christianity becomes empty, the corresponding year category in religion also becomes empty, so the religion year categories have been included in this nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:36, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support -- another batch of unnecessary twigs. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:01, 30 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Marcocapelle: bother, I was not aware of this nomination when I implemented the merger of the ancient France categories (Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2017_June_30), and there were a few cases where I did not merge to the year category because the article was already in one of these sub-cats for year-in-Christianity. I suppose I'd better trace them. Alternatively, this could be implemented as a bot-assisted merge rather than just deletion. – Fayenatic London 22:47, 30 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Pre-1664 in New York

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to existing Category:Establishments in New Netherland and to Category:1662 establishments in North America, or to new Category:Connecticut Colony establishments on Long Island and to year categories within Category:Establishments in the Thirteen Colonies for the British ones. – Fayenatic London 07:18, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming:
Rationale: Using the name "New York" for this region before 1664 is an anachronism. This was part of New Netherland until that year. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 02:47, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Two comments:
  1. none of the establishments in the above categories, except Billiou–Stillwell–Perine House established in 1662, was in New Netherland territory. These categories are apparently referring to New York state instead of New York city (it's rather ambiguous at least).
  2. presumably it should be New Netherland, not New Netherlands, right? Marcocapelle (talk) 05:00, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge those in New Netherland to a category for that, merge those clearly under British control to the British Empire establishments category for that year. However it might be worth looking into weather English settlers on Long Island really were acting under British auspices, or if they were settling with the support and cooperation of the Dutch.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:06, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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